HMS Dido

Today I once again welcome back Etienne Daly who has been using the ‘lockdown’ very productively continuing his research into Dido Elizabeth Belle and in particular his eye was drawn to the frigate HMS Dido. So, I’ll hand over to him tell you more about his findings:

The ‘lockdown’ and Covid-19 may have forced people to be at home, but for me it turned out to be advantageous because it allowed me time to read some books on admirals that I’d been meaning to do for a while now.

John Jervis, Earl of St Vincent. National Portrait Gallery

John Jervis, Earl of St Vincent. National Portrait Gallery

It was whilst I was reading a book on Earl St. Vincent, known, many years earlier to Sir John Lindsay, simply as John Jervis, that I discovered the frigate HMS Dido. I never knew such a ship existed so was keen to find out more.

I was already aware that both Lord and Lady Mansfield had ships named after them, with Lord Mansfield attending the launch of his, one of the largest of the East Indiamen ships, in 1777 at Rotherhithe and it was this which made me wonder whether HMS Dido could have any connection to Dido Elizabeth Belle and with that, the research began.

HMS 'Dido' and 'Lowestoft' in action with 'Minerve' and 'Artemise', 24 June 1795. National Maritime Museum
HMS ‘Dido’ and ‘Lowestoft’ in action with ‘Minerve’ and ‘Artemise’, 24 June 1795. National Maritime Museum

Sensing this could be linked to Dido Elizabeth Belle, the first thing I needed to establish was whether any ship been given this name in the past, if there was it meant this was not the case and merely a new ship named carrying an older name of Dido. There wasn’t any such ship named in the past and prior to checking this I noted that timeline as being perfect  for the naming of the frigate, notably 1782, 1784, 1785  finally 1787 – all in the ‘catchment time zone’ that I will go on to explain shortly.

Before I do, it’s best to explain first that in the 18th century to progress in life you needed one or all of these: patronage, privilege, grace and favours and if possible, a sprinkling of nepotism from an influential relative or three  this was especially the case in the Royal Navy and the army (during his years of First Lord of the Admiralty, Lord Sandwich kept a patronage book). Three lords had to sign an admiralty order(and/or request)to get things in motion and Sir John would have been well acquainted with all of them.

Just a point of interest worth mentioning, in August 1779, there was a ship launched named HMS Montagu during the tenure of Lord Sandwich, which, being the first lord of the admiralty was almost certainly named in his honour.

Naval Triumph, or Favours Confer'd. 13 Nov 1780 Royal Collection Trust
Naval Triumph, or Favours Confer’d. 13 Nov 1780 Royal Collection Trust

At the time of the new incoming government of April 1782, the Whig government, headed by the 2nd Marquess of Rockingham all of these elements were in place, in fact Lord Rockingham was a relative of Lord and Lady Mansfield by marriage and this made him Dido’s uncle. To add to this the marquis was a regular visitor to the Mansfield’s at Caenwood House, Hampstead. He in turn would know Dido’s father, Sir John Lindsay, very well.

Portrait of Charles Watson-Wentworth (1730–1782)
Portrait of Charles Watson-Wentworth (1730–1782)

The next influential person was the new First Lord of the Admiralty, Admiral  Augustus Keppel, who knew Rockingham well and Sir John Lindsay even more so, both being in service during the Seven Years War (1756-1763), in the Caribbean, and to make things even  more ‘pally’ was the fact that prior to 1782 they lived only ten minutes from each other in Mayfair. Keppel Keppel also left Sir John his sword, walking stick and a Richard Paton naval painting in his will.

Sir John Lindsay
Sir John Lindsay

Next you have to understand that if the admiralty was the right arm of  the senior service, then the navy board was the left, and in there as surveyor and designer to the Royal Navy was Sir John Williams, who knew all mentioned quite well over the years, he designed the 28-un frigate that was going to be called HMS Dido. Not here, the ship was not named HMS Queen Dido nor HMS Dido, Queen of Carthage, but simply HMS Dido. This name would have been vague had it not been named that way because it was named after a living person, and not named after a mythical queen. This living person was Dido Elizabeth Belle who, when the ship was ordered on 5th June 1782 would turn 21 years old just over three weeks later.

Dido Elizabeth Belle
Dido Elizabeth Belle

It was said that, when Lord Sandwich was in office, he would flick through the pages of Lemprière’s Classical Dictionary, looking for names to give ships. This was very much the sort of method used in the 18th century as names were plucked and agreed upon by arbitration, it wasn’t until the 19th century that a department was formed to name ships.

Prior to ordering the frigate relative paperwork, and by no means fully detailed as explained, would have landed on the desk of Admiral Keppel for his approval, perhaps cursory signature followed, but the naming of this frigate would have been fully agreed well in advance. Sir John would have known this.

For whilst Dido’s father was no longer on active service since April 1779, the same time as his close friend Keppel resigned his services, Sir  John was since the August of the previous year, 1781, a ‘Colonel of Marines’ a sinecure given to those deemed  worthy of such a role by their past naval service, this position was offered to him by the king himself, who I’ll  mention, as a patron and influence to Sir John a little later.

For now, Keppel drew up a list of naval officers he wished to employ with immediate effect and on that list at the top for captains/commodores was the name of Sir John Lindsay KB and other names followed after. It hasn’t been fully discovered yet why Sir John didn’t take up this offer but the whole list was presented to the First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Rockingham, who would have seen this familiar name on the list  – it’s safe to say that Lindsay could have had the job that April 1782 rather than a year later as a lord of the admiralty in 1783. Being a wealthy man perhaps Lindsay was content for the time being as Colonel of Marines, but Keppel and Sir John would definitely have been in regular contact in those early days of a new Whig government.

Lord Mansfield, whilst a Tory would have been contact with his relative the new premier, as mentioned Rockingham often dined at Caenwood House, ad certainly would have met his niece Dido there.  When seeing the approval of the name HMS Dido for a small ship by Keppel with Sir John’s instigation, it would have been immediately sanctioned and passed. All parties involved would have agreed by arbitration leaving nobody else to challenge the decision save jeopardising their career and patronage.

George III in 1781 Johann Hurter Royal Collection Trust.jpg
George III in 1781 Johann Hurter Royal Collection Trust.jpg

Back now to the king, he was Commander in Chief of the Royal Navy and whilst not getting involved in everyday events at the admiralty he would certainly be aware of the naming of ships a well as promoting officers of the rank. The king was a regular visitor to the Mansfield’s at Caenwood House as Lord Mansfield was to the king at St. James’s Palace, the Queen’s House and at Kew Palace.

The king and queen would probably have met Dido on their visits to the Mansfield’s, so her name wouldn’t sound strange in 1782 when a frigate is passed and ordered by the admiralty lords called HMS Dido. It’s also worth noting that the king’s governess, Lady Charlotte Finch, was related to the Countess Mansfield by marriage, having married Lady Betty’s brother William.

Lady Charlotte Finch. Royal Collection Trust
Lady Charlotte Finch. Royal Collection Trust

Lady Charlotte was governess to the princes/princesses for 30 years, so she too would have visited the Mansfield’s with her husband, so you can see now where the patronage is coming from and why there would have been no obstacles in the way of naming a ship, in this case HMS Dido and on the month of her 21st birthday and no longer a minor.

A View of Kenwood, the Seat of the Earl of Mansfield, in the county of Middlesex
A View of Kenwood, the Seat of the Earl of Mansfield, in the county of Middlesex. Yale Center for British Art, Paul Mellon Collection

The king and queen would, most likely have been aware of the ship’s naming  and who requested it, this brings them to Sir John Lindsay whom the king himself knighted in 1764, made a Knight of the Bath in 1770 and commodore with full command of  the East India Station and Gulf of Persia the previous year. If that wasn’t enough, he was also representing the king as ‘ambassador’ to India with his dealings with both the crown prince of Arcot and the Honourable East India Company. He was also given full command of all marines stationed at Madras. Now this should tell you of the patronage, privilege, grace and favours bestowed upon Sir John Lindsay by the king and the nepotism of his uncle the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Mansfield. By now you should be able to see the people of influence involved of the initial influencer, Sir John and why all would agree upon the name choice.

Just the following year as the frigate was under construction in 1783, and through Admiral Keppel, Sir John accepted the role of commodore and commander-in-chief of the Mediterranean Fleet, which greatly pleased the king. Was this in return for the king’s support in the naming of the vessel? We will never fully know, but we do know that the king often met with Sir John.

William Bentinck,3rd Duke of Portland, a Whig, became premier in April 1783 and was also a close friend of Sir John and had rented out his house in Mansfield Street to Sir John from June 1782 prior to him joining the administration in 1783 as an admiralty lord. As a close contact of Sir John he wouldn’t question his frigate request and would pass it unchallenged, leaving as mentioned no one else to question the final decision.

It’s also noting that Margaret, Dowager Duchess of Portland, William’s mother, was a very close friend of the Mansfield’s, especially Lady Betty, again showing influence in the right places. She would have most likely have met Dido often on her visits to Caenwood House.

Now to the timeline of events from that order in June 1782 for the frigate named HMS Dido. To start, by June 1782 peace overtures were in their early stages of ending the American War of Independence, but in the March, Dido’s aunt Margaret Ramsay died, starting off a cycle of deaths within the family. In July 1782, the Marquess of Rockingham died. Margaret’s husband Allan Ramsay, the renowned artist, being Dido’s uncle would have been aware of the naming of the frigate.

HMS 'Dido' and 'Lowestoft' in action with 'Minerve' and 'Artemise', 24 June 1795 Royal Museums Greenwich
HMS ‘Dido’ and ‘Lowestoft’ in action with ‘Minerve’ and ‘Artemise’, 24 June 1795. Royal Museums Greenwich

The year 1783 saw Sir John made both Lord of the Admiralty and a commodore who by October that year headed off as Commander in Chief of the Mediterranean Fleet. In the meantime, in the previous 12 months the keel went down for the ship at Sandgate, Kent and construction was on the way. 1784 saw the death of Countess Mansfield in the April and Allan Ramsay in the August, so both would have been aware of the forthcoming frigate’s launch later that year but never got to experience it. 1785 saw the ship completed in the main and it was sent up to Royal Deptford dockyard for final finishing and coppering. That year was also the last year Lord Mansfield was in full office, as the following year he began working part-time from home, with Dido’s assistance until a new chief justice was found. He resigned office in June 1788.

Sir John Lindsay. Scone Palace
Sir John Lindsay. Scone Palace

Whilst Sir John returned from his command in late October 1784, he would have heard of the launching of HMS Dido on 27th November 1784 and have been kept aware of that ship’s progress well into 1787 when the frigate was now based at Portsmouth. On 24th September 1787 HMS dido was commissioned by the Royal Navy for service, and note, the very day that Sir John was promoted by the king to Rear Admiral of the Red – the highest promotion for a rear admiral whilst suffering from severe gout, Sir John remained in service albeit on terra firma, until his death on 4th June 1788, when returning from Bath after taking the waters.

Based upon my findings it was no coincidence that both the commissioning and Sir John’s promotion took places on the same day – in my opinion, it was planned that way.

There were 27 Enterprise frigates designed and built over the years, in batches but note the last batch of 3 frigates covered the period 1782-1783, just the very years that the Whigs were in power in government and all known or related to Sir John, (later an admiralty lord himself) and his daughter Dido. All had an input in the naming, launching and the commissioning of the first ship ever named Dido in the Royal Navy to date.

John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich after Johan Joseph Zoffany. National Portrait Gallery
John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich after Johan Joseph Zoffany. National Portrait Gallery

It’s also worth noting that prior to the naming of the newly designed frigate by Sir John Williams, then to the request of naming, building, launching and commissioning was a certain recently retired first lord that knew all about it and knew it was patronage from start to finish was John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich. During his career he was 3 times First Lord of the Admiralty and kept a personal ‘patronage book’ himself – I bet Sir John was in it, because he wrote to Lord Mansfield on 26th December 1780 from Blackheath, requesting Sir John rejoin the navy (after his resignation in 1779), as he was a naval officer of merit.

Oddly, Lord Sandwich came to live at Sir John’s house in Hertford Street after the North administration fell in March 1782 and stayed there till his death in 1792.

I doubt any paperwork exists that can fully confirm the order of the frigate and as names were plucked or discussed arbitrarily in the 18th century the latter was more the case. There are too many coincidences in my findings overall, and many influential persons to be found with close links to Sir John and his quest to name a ship after his daughter in her 21st year, a year when she was no longer a minor. It was also in 1782 that Dido was included in Lord Mansfield’s will, freeing her of any slavery in the future. So, Dido received two very good birthday presents for her 21st birthday.

Just one final items which demonstrates that Dido was not hidden away, but was known to Lord Mansfields family and friends comes in the form a newspaper report about the death of Sir John Lindsay, from 1788:

Public Advertiser. June 10, 1788
Public Advertiser. June 10, 1788
As a final point of interest, Queen Victoria’s goddaughter, Sarah Forbes Bonetta (1843-1880) was given her surname Bonetta by Captain James Forbes, who liberated her from slavery and who was the captain of HMS Bonetta.
Etienne has recently found out from Richard at the website More Than Nelson that there was sloop named Stormont, which Etienne believe would have been named after Viscount Stormont. The Stormont of 14 Guns commanded by Nicholas Charrington, was taken at the capture of St. Eustatius in February 1781. It was then captured by the French on 3 February 1782 at Demerara.

The second Stormont of 16 guns was previously the American privateer Scourge and which was taken on 14 February 1782 by the Protee 64, Captain Charles Buckner, in the Leeward Islands. It is feasible that Admiral Rodney had probably learned of the loss of the first Stormont by the time he appointed Cobb to command the captured Scourge on 13 March 1782, but Richard has said that he doesn’t know whether he would have renamed the Scourge ‘Stormont’ or whether instructions were issued from the Admiralty to do so some months later.

It is Etienne’s opinion that Lord Sandwich would have authorised the naming of both sloops (14&16guns) HMS Stormont, and as Stormont related to Viscount Stormont, Lord Mansfield’s nephew, it would have been named after him. Finally worth noting is the first captured sloop named HMS Stormont 14, was renamed Le Stormond by the French as mostly probably because Lord Stormont was ambassador to France from 1772 till 1778 when hostilities broke out between Great Britain and France. Lord Stormont up to this time was very close to the French Royal Family even attending the new king’s wedding to Marie Antoinette in May 1774—in fact his uncle Lord Mansfield joined him too on this special occasion.

Although there was never a ship named in honour of Sir John Lindsay, there were four ships with likely connections to the family – HMS Dido, as above; one owned by the East India Company – Earl of Mansfield, 1777, commanded by a Sir William Fraser, and according to Oxford Journal, 26 May 1781 there was also a brig named Lady Mansfield and now, a sloop, The Stormont.

20 thoughts on “HMS Dido

  1. Rosemary Bentley

    Lady Charlotte Finch nee Fermor married Lady Betty’s i.e. Lady Elizabeth Murray nee Finch’s brother William Finch not her brother Daniel Finch. On 9 August 1746, Charlotte married the Hon. William Finch (1691–1766) not his elder brother.


  2. Ian Trackman

    An interesting proposition, but it’s important to consider the reasons for doubting it.

    1. According to Wikipedia (although no authority is cited), there were twenty-seven 28-gun sailing frigates of the sixth-rate produced for the Navy between 1770 and 1782, of which HMS Dido was one. Of the 27, 16 were named with classical or mythological associations : Siren, Actaeon, Prosperine, Medea, Andromeda, Aurora, Sybil, Pomona, Nemesis, Mercury, Pegasus, Cyclops, Vestal, Thisbe, Circe and Dido. So the name Dido was not exceptional, maybe rather just one of a pattern (and all of single names). It appears that Andromeda, Sybil, Nemesis, Cyclops, Thisbe and Circe were also first-time namings.

    2. If Lindsay wanted to honour his daughter by having a ship named after her, would he not have been worried about the potential public scandal relating to her race/ancestry and slavery connections ? This is the age of the uninhibited satirical cartoon.

    3. Also, if Lindsay were so close to his daughter, a) why haven’t we found any evidence of any relationship/communication between them at this time (or before or after) and b) why doesn’t Dido live with him on his retirement from active service ? Mansfield’s nieces Anne and Marjory were perhaps the ones really looking after the Mansfields.

    4. Again, if the relationship was close, why is Dido completely ignored in Lindsay’s will – as Sarah Murden has pointed out ?

    5. Neither the Kenwood accounts for Mansfield’s latter years (1785 to 1793), nor Mansfield’s will itself, give any inkling of Dido receiving financial support from Lindsay. Surely of more practical value than having a ship named after her ?

    Also :

    “Rockingham often dined at Caenwood House, and *certainly* would have met his niece Dido there”. Is there evidence ?

    “The king and queen would probably have met Dido on their visits to the Mansfield’s” and “[the Duchess of Portland] would have most likely have met Dido often on her visits to Caenwood House” But the Hutchinson record suggests the possibility of the contrary on at least one occasion.


    1. Sarah Murden

      Response from Etienne Daly:

      1. The last batch of 3 ships were for 1782/83 and although all had single names HMS Dido was, in my opinion, kept vague because it wasn’t appertaining to a mythical person otherwise it would have been named HMS Queen Dido, HMS Dido Queen of Carthage or at least HMS Dido of Carthage. Instead it was dedicated to a living person. But no ship had ever been named Dido in the past which counts, especially as was ordered in the year of Dido’s 21st birthday and passed by the Admiralty where both Admiral Keppel, 1st Lord and Vice Admiral, Hugh Pigot, 1st Naval Lord were close friends of Sir John – indeed Sir John Williams the designer, knew well of Sir John Lindsay as his co-designer Sir Thomas Slade designed the Trent 28 of which Sir John Lindsay captained from new in 1757. Patronage was of influence here.

      2. No, I don’t believe Sir John would have been at all worried about public scandal, why should he be? He was an aristocrat and did as he pleased. It appears highly unlikely that we would have worried about public scandal especially when he resigned office in 1779, after the Keppel Trial for example. Also, by this time Lord Mansfield had Dido in the family for the past 16 years. Did he worry about being satirised – no. In fact, Lord Mansfield was often satirised in the press and it never appears to have bothered him – and he helped many black people with his court cases.

      3. We don’t know how close father and daughter there were as so far there doesn’t appear to be any surviving correspondence to confirm this. However, Dido was raised at Caenwood House and I’ve snippets showing visits by Sir John to Caenwood. It would seem almost impossible that Dido would have been hidden away when her own father visited. Given that Dido spent the majority of her life at Caenwood, why would she wish to leave to live with Sir John and Lady Mary? Afterall, neither of his other two children, John and Elizabeth lived with them as far as we can ascertain, so why would Dido? She would have been 21 when Sir John retired, happy at Caenwood, why move? It doesn’t appear a logical move, especially given how ill Sir John was in later years and according to Lady Mary his ‘painful existence’. For all we know so far, Dido may have regularly visited her father, rather than living with him and Lady Mary. Correspondence pertaining to Sir John seems to be in very short supply to date.

      4. Dido was raised from 5 years of age with the Mansfield’s, entrusted into their care, there would surely have to be an undertaking at the time over her upkeep. She became part of their family and looked after as well as educated by them. It would not be expected for relatives of aristocrats to raise their children for them in the main. Whilst there’s not an answer a to why Sir John left Dido out of his will, she was included in Lord Mansfield’s will and that could have been an understanding from the start. Sir John and Lord Mansfield used the same bank and Sir John also had a separate bank to that, making it easy to transfer funds.

      5. Sir John could, for arguments sake, not have supported Dido, but still want to name a ship after her, there is no reason why this should not have been the case.

      Rockingham’s visits – yes, there’s evidence of this and several too. Rockingham was Dido’s uncle, again upon visiting Lord Mansfield it seems highly likely think he would wish to meet his niece, like most uncles would.

      I have only come across one reference to Hutchinson describing Dido joining the guests after dinner, so it’s not possible to conclude from that entry, that this was always the case. George III and Queen Charlotte were extremely well known to Lord Mansfield and there is evidence to support their visits to Caenwood, so I would surmise that in all likelihood they would have met Dido at least once. I’m not sure about the Duchess of Portland, as so far, nothing has come to light to her visiting Caenwood. Lord Mansfield introduced Dido to Dr James Beattie upon his visit to London in 1772, and he wasn’t considered part of the family, only barely known to the Mansfield’s i.e. not a regular visitor, yet they were happy for Dido to meet him and to quote poetry to him. As for the King, he was a regular visitor to the Mansfield’s and knew Sir John very well over the years and who became his ambassador to India. So if Lord Mansfield was to ‘parade’ Dido in front of Dr Beattie, it seems perfectly reasonable that he would do the same for the King and Queen, who knew her father very well and how well she was being educated by the Mansfield’s in her father’s absence.

      Dido was being raised as a young lady in English polite society. Unlike her siblings, Dido was raised fully in an aristocratic environment and well catered for, even a bequest after Lord Mansfield’s death. It is more likely that to create a balance her siblings were placed in Sir John’s will leading up to his death in 1788 of which they benefitted.

      It should also be noted that SS Lady Mansfield and SS The Earl of Mansfield were both ships named after Lord and Lady Mansfield, so why shouldn’t a ship be named after their great niece. Whilst there is not conclusive supporting evidence as yet, to me, it makes a more realistic finding.


  3. hendel12

    Where did you get the picture of John Lindsay I googled pictures I only see a sculpture a miniature and a portrait. Also I always wonder how come I never seen Lindsay letter , like the guy said before me said, maybe he burned it cause he was always out in the ocean also he is related too Mansfield maybe protections reasons.


    1. Sarah Murden

      This is a newly discovered portrait at Scone Palace of Sir John Lindsay. If you check out their Instagram account you’ll find more information about their discovery –

      Unless any of Sir John’s correspondence is at Scone Palace, no-one seems to know what happened to it, which is very frustrating as I’m sure it would prove extremely helpful.


  4. hendel12

    Sarah sorry for asking so many questions I just find this so interesting.
    Is there any other witness other Thomas Hutchinson about belle like, is there any other correspondence referring to belle.
    Also is there any new documents on sir Lindsay.
    Also what was sir Lindsay doing after he got old and stayed in England?
    Oh is there portrait of his wife? I mean he really rich you know


    1. Sarah Murden

      Questions are always welcome, people are still trying to learn more about Dido’s life which can only be a good thing.

      The only other document that makes reference to Dido was written a few years after her death and after his own death, by a James Beattie, this link will take you directly to his account – page 225 –

      There are very few documents about Sir John Lindsay that I know of at yet. He was made Rear Admiral of the Red in 1787 and died the following year, but had been ill for a number of years and according to Lady Mary had ‘lived the most painful existence‘.

      I would have thought there would have been a portrait of his wife, Lady Mary, but if there was no-one seems to have seen it as yet – but you never know, maybe it will appear one day. New information about the family is being found all the time, so I haven’t given up hope of learning more.


  5. Ronique Breaux Jordan

    Fascinating naval history. My next visit to Annapolis, I will venture to the Maryland state archives for any potential birthing records at Baltimore harbour.


  6. hendel12

    “the 2nd Marquess of Rockingham all of these elements were in place, in fact Lord Rockingham was a relative of Lord and Lady Mansfield by marriage and this made him Dido’s uncle“
    How though? Which family member? Like did he marry sir john Lindsay sister?

    Also did u come across this info this it’s basically sir John Lindsay answering questions about something that happened I think it was about ships and admiral kepple.

    The book is called Proceedings at Large of the Court Martial on the Trial of the Honourable Augustus Keppel, Admiral of the Blue. Held on Board His Majesty’s Ship the Britannia on Thursday, January 7th, 1779, and Adjourned to the House of the Governor of Portsmouth, and Held the Till Thursday, February 11th, when the Admiral was Honourably Acquitted. Taken in Short Hand by W. Blanchard for the Admiral and Published by His Permission


    1. Sarah Murden

      Reply from Etienne Daly:

      Daniel Finch 2nd Earl of Nottingham had quite a few children, one of whom was Lady Elizabeth Finch who married Lord Mansfield.

      One of her sisters, Lady Mary Finch ((1701-1761) married Thomas Watson-Wentworth, 1st Marquess of Rockingham (1693-1750).

      It was their son Charles, who became 2nd Marquess of Rockingham (1730-1782) and Prime minister. The relationship to Dido is not through the bloodline, only via marriage, but it demonstrates the family ties.

      Thank you, yes I had come across the information about Admiral Keppel.


  7. ‘the designed the 28-un frigate that was going to be called HMS Dido. Not here, the ship was not named HMS Queen Dido nor HMS Dido, Queen of Carthage, but simply HMS Dido. This name would have been vague had it not been named that way because it was named after a living person, and not named after a mythical queen. ‘

    This doesn’t add up. The Navy launced HMS Alfred in 1778, its not named after a random Alfred, its named for Alfred the Great

    1806 The Navy launched HMS Adonis, HMS Hercules 1759, 1796 HMS Augustus. I think what you are seeing is the birth of the naming trend for the classical world. Its also this century we get the resurgence of classical architecture and art when Italy could be connected to Empire and Knowledge rather than Catholicism. Its why all the town halls and museums have columns! I’d say Dido’s name and the ship both follow the same trend. Its possible the name Dido could have been in the mind because of Dido Belle, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say the ship was named after her otherwise I’d have to look up who in the Navy knew an Alfred!


    1. Sarah Murden

      Thank you so much for your comments, below is a response from Etienne Daly:

      All persons of influence were in place at the time of the order/naming* of the frigate and all were known to Sir John. The ships named thereafter did not have the same influence around them for a ship name but still would’ve been agreed by a form of arbitration, with Sir John this wasn’t required because of his request – his daughter’s 21st birthday and possibly because the Mansfield’s had ships named after themselves, they being Dido’s guardians.

      It is necessary to be aware of the areas of influence back then and how things could happen with a little request or privilege that aristocrats could fall back on times of preferment. This is very evident in the book, Resolution: Two Brothers. A Nation in Crisis. A World at War, of which certain favours happened that never fell under public scrutiny nor made public! Much like Sir Hugh Palliser, the admiral at the ‘Keppel Trial’ accusing his senior officer of being negligent in his duty … he was not and was cleared. Many senior officers resigned their commissions, Sir John Lindsay being amongst the first and it could be well gauged that given the esteem of these officers Palliser never took to the seas again. He also lost his Lt. Generalship of Marines and sent on gardener’s leave as Governor of the Greenwich Hospital. He was however promoted to Admiral of the Blue on 24th Sept.1787 because of his years of service to the Royal Navy. Finally, to show the influence of Sir John, his nemesis, Lord Sandwich rented Sir John’s house after the fall of the North government in March 1782.

      *3 frigates were ordered from the final batch of Enterprise Class ships for 1782/83, Sir John Williams was the designer/surveyor at the Navy Board at this time and well known to Sir John. For Sir John to request him to name one of these frigates as HMS Dido would not have met with a refusal especially as the new first lord, Admiral Augustus Keppel, was a very close friend of Sir John Lindsay KB to back up such a request!


  8. hendel12

    Wait was dido usually in the house helping Mansfield’s since childhood or was she outside?

    I find it strange how all these people that are friends or family with Mansfield never mentioned her or something.
    Also did dido “sister” Lady Elizabeth Finch-Hatton live near dido after she got married?

    Also did dido write letters to anybody else?
    I also wonder how she met her husband I wonder if Mansfield arranged her marriage.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Sarah Murden

      Dido was raised as one of the family from being a young child, aged about 5. She became involved in helping Lord Mansfield with his correspondence when he was older.

      Yes, it is unusual that Dido hasn’t been mentioned by any friends of family, apart from the few we know of, but it doesn’t mean she wasn’t, it just means they haven’t been discovered – yet.

      Lady Elizabeth was Dido’s half cousin, not sister and when she married and became Mrs Finch-Hatton, she and her husband George lived at Eastwell Park in Kent, so not close to Dido, but it’s likely that they also had a property in London too.

      We’re not aware of Dido writing letters to anyone, apart from the one that has survived which was written on behalf of Lord Mansfield, that Dido signed. It was not uncommon for person correspondence not to have survived though.

      It’s not clear how Dido met John Daviniere, but it’s likely that the family would have had a hand in arranging it, but that of course, is just speculation with nothing to support it. You can find out more about Dido’s later life here


      1. Rosemary Bentley

        Dido and lady Elizabeth Murray were 2nd cousins and not half cousins. Lord Mansfield and his wife were already raising Dido’s cousin (2nd cousin), Lady Elizabeth Murray, of similar age to Dido born 1761 and Elizabeth 1760, after her mother’s death. Lady Elizabeth Mary Murray (1760 – 1 June 1825) was the daughter of David Murray, 2nd Earl of Mansfield by his first marriage to Henrietta Frederica von Bünau and hence Lord Mansfield’s great niece and so was Dido his great niece via his brother David 6th Viscount Stormount. 2nd cousins have the same great grandparents namely 5th Viscount Stormont David Murray and Marjorie.


        1. Sarah Murden

          Yes, thanks Rosemary, you’re quite correct, 2nd cousins. There will be a blog post about Lady Elizabeth Murray’s life in the near future.


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